Rethinking Service Innovation

Lance A. Bettencourt, PhD, has led job-centric innovation projects with many of the world’s leading companies, including Microsoft Corporation, Colgate-Palmolive, Collective Brands, Hewlett-Packard Company, TD Bank Financial Group, Kimberly-Clark, Abbott Medical Optics, and J&J Medical. His thought-leadership in the area is also evident in his publications on job-centric L. Bettencourtinnovation, including:

Download PDF Transcript of Podcast

Note: This is a transcription of a podcast. It has not gone through a professional editing process and may contain grammatical errors or incorrect formatting.

Related Podcast: Service Innovation – Rethinking Customer Needs

Transcription of the Podcast

Joe Dager:  Welcome everyone this is Joe Dager, the host of the Business901 podcast. With me today is Lance Bettencourt. He is a recognized expert on the job?centric innovation process. He has led job?centric innovation projects with many of the world’s leading companies. He also has published a book, “Service Innovation.” I’d like to welcome you, Lance, and start out the conversation. How would you define job?centric innovation?

Lance Bettencourt:  Job?centric innovation is, basically, the thinking that you need to look at the innovation process, especially the front end of the innovation process, where you’re trying to scope out what you want to study, finding those opportunities, and then ultimately conceiving ideas that will be valuable to customers. You want to look at that front end of the innovation process, in particular, with a customer?job point of view as your anchor point. And so you can sort of look at the market and market opportunities in that way. You can look at customer needs from the standpoint of getting a job done better, faster, more affordably.

When you start conceiving ideas, you look at what ideas are going to help customers in that way that are relative to competitive offerings. And the job orientation actually opens up that notion of who the true competition is because it includes not only those who offer solutions just like you, but those also that are in seemingly different industries, substitute goods, et cetera.

So the overall innovation process, looking at it with a jobs?based anchor is what job?centric innovation is all about.

Joe:  So you’re really not talking like jobs for people. You’re talking about the customer jobs.

Lance:  Definitely talking about the customer job. However, it certainly applies to the business?to?business customers as well, who often are professionals who have their own jobs, but they are all then also customers of some other businesses, goods and/or services, so it does apply. But no, it’s not job?centric in the sense of the job of innovation, per se. It’s the customer job that guides the innovation process, whether it is a consumer or a business?to?business customer.

Joe:  Why do you believe this approach really provides, I guess we would call it the optimal road map?

Lance:  Well, I think that the job orientation provides the optimal road map for a couple of reasons. Certainly, one of those in particular is that the job allows the innovator to really understand customer needs in a solution?independent manner. And so you can look at what the customers trying to accomplish. That not only allows you to understand what their pain points are their inconveniences, relative to today’s solutions ?? and actually, you can get needs in that way that can improve today’s solutions ??, but it’s really an optimal road map because it also allows you to envision the future.

Because the job is solution?independent, it allows you to look at customer needs in a way that can guide next?generation solutions and solutions that haven’t even been created yet. And so it really is a road map for looking at both improving current solutions and for thinking about very new solutions, new to the company, new to the world, et cetera.

Joe:  When I go to service?dominant logic, or S?D logic, they’ve always proposed your product or service has no value until it’s put in use by the customer. You’re kind of saying the same thing, aren’t you?

Lance:  Well, there’s definitely a link to the service?dominant logic theories, for anyone that follows that, from the academic background especially. Service?dominant logic says, “Look, it’s not about a good. It’s not about the service, per se. All offerings, all solutions that are provided to customers ultimately deliver a service.” And so, even if you’re talking about a digital recorder, the service is to record something for someone. And so, in that sense, there’s definitely a link here because the jobs focus really allows you to understand customer needs that cut across goods, services, software, customer as part of the resource solution, as well.

Service? Dominant Logic is all about that, saying, “Hey, let’s stop looking at these arbitrary distinctions and let’s find the commonality.” The customer job is definitely a commonality, in terms of the need space, to understand what the customers trying to accomplish that transcends those somewhat artificial distinctions.

I don’t want to say they’re completely artificial. Obviously, there are relevant distinctions. But from a need perspective, it’s certainly less critical.

Joe:  Why do you think this accelerates creativity?

Lance:  I think, perhaps, one of the key barriers to creativity and innovation, often, is when companies tend to think about what they already offer, what their capabilities are. All too often, companies begin with that as their anchor point and say, “Well, this is our product. What can we do to make it better? This is our service. These are our capabilities. What can we do with them?” They’re not bad questions to ask. They’re certainly fine questions to ask, within a limited context with certain objectives in mind. But they’re certainly more constraining on you in terms of the ideas that you can come up with, because now we’re saying, “What can we do to a something that we already have,” versus saying, “Well, this is the customer job that’s solution?independent.”

This is what they’re trying to accomplish and how they measure success. And now the question becomes, “Well, what are the different ways in which we can provide and deliver value to the customer, given their objectives?” Naturally that type of questioning opens up the horizons and, therefore, opens up the creativity space for companies, as well.

Joe:  Your book, “Service Innovation,” one of the things it does, it put a very disciplined approach to service innovation. That seems like it’s mind?boggling for some, because we’re all thinking that innovation is creativity and wearing the sandals to work, the shorts. Can you really get benefits? I thought you had to be creative and loose and getting your ideas in the shower and driving to work and everything.

Lance:  Well, there’s a place for creativity, obviously, through the innovation process, through the whole process, including when you’re scoping the market on the front end. For example, I know you’re going to be familiar, obviously, and many of the listeners will as well, to Blue Ocean Strategy. I review their materials periodically because I enjoy the book. I enjoy some of their thoughts. There was a quote that stood out to me recently, and it says the view of markets that you require for great innovation is that markets aren’t predefined but that markets can be shaped and reshaped by how you look at them and what you do.

The customer?job perspective is a great way of enabling you to look at markets in a very new way. Now we’re no longer looking at product markets. We’re looking at the market from the job perspective, and we can shape this and reshape it in various ways.

Creativity even applies there. Certainly, creativity and inspiration play in when you’re talking about coming up with very innovative, very novel solutions. And to have structure certainly doesn’t mean that there’s not going to be moments of inspiration, whether it’s you’re driving along, you’re in the shower, whatever the classic clichés are.

Certainly, those moments of inspiration are important, and you need those to succeed. It’s not just knowing what the needs are; you’ve got to have a better, useful solution to those needs. But that alone does not mean that the structure cannot benefit the innovation process in terms of figuring out what we want to go study, those market?shaping perspectives, understanding what the customer needs are, certainly that demands?structured perspective anchored around the customer job.

Then, even in that creativity space, increasingly those who focus on disruptive innovation follow a systematic, pattern?based approach there. Business?model innovation looks at how you can systematically break down your business model and look for variations there. And even creativity experts, such as those in the trees world, look at how you can systematically come up with ideas to trade?offs and technological limitations.

So I think the system is very important there, but system alone does not mean inspiration can’t be part of it either.

Joe:  Can you do it without a system?

Lance:  Well, I think that there’s always the possibility that you simply have that idea that comes to you, and you say, “Wow, this is exactly what’s needed.” You might be playing a little bit on hope at that moment that it actually is a meaningful unmet need that there’s actually a job out there that customers consider important, not well?satisfied today that this idea will satisfy. I will say that there are obviously tons of stories of entrepreneurs who came up with a great idea that then became a multi?billion?dollar business. Well, did those entrepreneurs follow a systematic process of “I scoped my market. I went and understood my customer needs, and I systematically conceived of ideas, and I went forward from there.”

I think some would argue that they didn’t, and I probably would argue that they didn’t either, not from a systematic?process perspective. I do believe that every great innovation out there succeeds because it, perhaps, reshapes market boundaries, by looking at unmet customer needs for the job they’re trying to get done, and comes up with a novel and innovative solution. That’s a systematic process, even if they didn’t formally go through steps.

Joe:  After you’ve written the book ?? it’s been out a while ?? what have you learned from it?

Lance:  I think my learning from the book; I’ll phrase it in two ways. One was probably just during the actual writing process. I do a lot of executive education, as well. And when I write, writing and/or teaching forces you to really think through the issues so that you’re not saying anything that you regret later. You really want to think through it. And I really tried to put into the book things that were time?tested and validated, in practice, in theory, et cetera. There’s always some things that you are sort of playing with on the edge ?? the edge of, in this case, the innovation space ?? that you go, “Well, I’m not quite sure that it’s time?tested, that it will hold the test of time. Maybe I’ll vary my thinking on that over time.”

I tried not to put those types of things in the book because I really wanted to focus on that which I knew, five years, 10 years down the road, was going to be valid. And so I still feel very good about the content that’s in the book, from that perspective. But certainly, writing the book forced me to think through some things.

For example, an example of a learning there while I was going through the book. I really realized ?? and I think it’s only in a footnote in the book. Actually, my editor said, “Let’s take out this footnote. There’s too much information, if you will.” I said, “No, I’ve got to keep this one in there.” It was a revelation point to me.

It was this: that I started look at the jobs that customers hire services to get done in two distinct ways. One of those is where the service does the job for you. And so you essentially outsource it. You say, “OK, you’re going to do my tax prep for me.” I might have very little role in that, except to hand over documents to you and receive it in the end. Otherwise, you’re really the one doing the job for me, if you’re a CPA, for example.

In contrast, there are other jobs where the service is really more of an enabler to the customer getting the job done. And so an example there would be something like, if I want to lose weight, I might hire Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, et cetera, or some other means, as a service, to enable me to get my job done of losing weight. But Weight Watchers does not actually do the job for me.

I started thinking about that because I started thinking about “How do I want to write about this?” as I was writing different chapters. I realized that was a very important distinction. The idea of this core job and core job map makes a lot more sense when you’re just enabling me to do the job, whereas if I am simply hiring you out to do the job for me, then it’s this idea that it’s really more of what I call the service?delivery, obtaining?service job map in the book.

If a reader picks up on it or not, I don’t know, but to me it was a revelation moment that I’ve used subsequently in talking to clients about their innovation projects.

Joe:  Your title’s “Service Innovation.” It applies to products also, doesn’t it, the book?

Lance:  It certainly applies to product innovation, as well. I’d venture to say maybe; I don’t know, half the chapters, I’d say, could be applied either to product or service innovation. I actually make a comment of that in the conclusion of the book. I think I actually call out there specific chapters and say, “This chapter, this chapter, this chapter, this chapter certainly applies equally to product or service innovation, and then these others apply more just to service innovation.”

The basic ones on understanding customer needs, again, apply either way, because if the needs are solution?independent, then it really is about looking for what the big opportunities are and then making a decision, as a company, about what the best type of innovation might be. That’s a combination of what the needs are, but also company capabilities, strategy, comfort level, et cetera.

There are other chapters that I introduced which were certainly much more geared toward service. I’m thinking about chapters related to obtaining service and so the steps really pertain to service, per se, not product usage.

There is a chapter on providing service, then, which is the flip side of that, for looking at the aspects of delivering on service to satisfy customer needs. That was really, what are the opportunities for innovation from that more internal?centric perspective. There’s also a chapter on service design dimensions, which really don’t cut across product space, at least, certainly, not, as well.

Joe:  There’s also a tie into now, that I’m seeing the service innovation float into business?model innovation. Is that really possible that we could be sitting here innovating our business model all the time now?

Lance:  I think that it’s certainly true. And I’ll draw a parallel here with disruptive innovation, where you’re talking about truly thinking about disruptive innovation from the perspective of Clayton Christensen, whether it is a low?end disruption or that new market creation. Clay has talked about this as well, where that type of innovation, because it’s just so different from your sustaining innovation that he talks about, often goes hand?in?hand with business?model innovation. You’re really offering something that competes along very different priorities from a customer perspective. Often requires a new delivery approach, a new channel, a new sales mechanism, and new manufacturing processes sometimes to really get that price point down, et cetera.

That’s a parallel to service innovation. I think that service innovation, especially if you are a product?based company primarily, certainly will often go hand?in?hand with business?model innovation, because the idea of offering, especially when we’re talking about value?added services ?? not just services that complement your current product offerings but truly value?added services ?? is often very much a business?model change. Again, there are possibly new channels.

There are possibly new people within the customer organization that you’re going to need to sell to, therefore, sales channels, sometimes distribution channels, value?chain networks. Certainly we’re selling solutions now sometimes versus individual units. And on and on.

I don’t think that service innovation and business?model innovation have to go hand?in?hand. They’re certainly not the same thing. But I do think that when you’re a product?based company, and you look at value?added services, often that does go hand?in?hand with business?model innovation.

Joe:  When we’re seeing a lot of these innovative practices, isn’t some of this value?in?use concepts that we’re recognizing, such as sharing cars that maybe can accelerate our innovation?

Lance:  Henry Chesbrough, obviously well?known for open innovation. And he has a book that came out. I guess it was also last year, called “Open Services Innovation.” He talks about something interesting that I didn’t talk about in my book, and I think it was an interesting takeaway from his book, that a lot of service innovation comes from where there is a potential customer, whether it’s a business?to?business or a consumer, et cetera, that has what he calls an asset that is essentially underutilized. And so, even put in the consumer space, if I have a lawnmower or something, some types of goods to take care of my lawn, and I only use them, let’s say it’s once a month ?? and that’s certainly not the case living in the Midwest. I use them once a month, and I use it for six months a year, and so I use my lawnmower all of six times a year, for example.

I have to pay for that, and that’s a very expensive asset to own. The value from my use from it, if you will, on individual times where I execute the job, let’s say, of mowing my lawn, it’s very high?cost.

Henry Chesbrough talks about this asset utilization. When there’re these underutilized assets, there’s not much great value in use, perhaps, is one way of framing it. That really does open up the possibility for service innovation.

It really is still looking at the jobs perspective, but in this case it’s saying, “Look, I think there’s a different business model, from a service perspective; that really competes with customers buying the good for themselves.”

Zipcar would be another example that a lot of folks would be familiar with, where, on the one hand, it competes with other rental?car companies, but the Zipcar model also could be said to compete against consumers who own their own car.

If you’re in a big city and you only use a car occasionally for small errands, running short errands, half?hour, hour at a time, then that might mean it’s a very expensive asset to maintain, and it’s underutilized, and that then opened up the opportunity for service innovation for Zipcar.

Joe:  Your book spends a lot of time uncovering these customer needs versus what I would say is how to create innovation. Why so much emphasis on that topic?

Lance:  Obviously, there are a couple reasons. One just comes from my background and my expertise. My work in applying these concepts certainly has gone forward to the conceiving stage, working with clients on strategy, conceiving ideas, as well. But a lot of my work with clients, both in terms of the executive education work but as well as in terms of the project work that I’ve done, has been, really, to help them to navigate that fuzzy front end of innovation in terms of understanding customer needs.

Certainly, from a capabilities standpoint, for me and my expertise, it made sense. However, why that area in particular? Why is that even the area where I was doing all this work and why I continue to do this work? It is because I think that that is an area of the innovation process where companies tend to struggle more.

There are actually a lot of authors who have said most companies don’t struggle with having enough ideas, even enough good ideas. Where they struggle is knowing which of these ideas are truly going to be valuable from a customer perspective.

That comes back to, well, do they understand customer needs? Do they understand how to understand customer needs that can, again, work at driving and guiding both short?term innovations and also longer?term innovations, whether it is the business model, services, disruption, et cetera?

So much of it comes back to a good understanding of customer needs, and I felt, really, that’s where there’s a lot of misunderstandings, both in the services realm but also in the product realm.

For those two reasons combined is why I spend so much in the book to make sure that is really well?understood, because once you have a good understanding of that, that can really guide the remainder of the process in a very efficient and effective manner. And in contrast, if you don’t understand your customer needs well, it can undermine everything else that comes after it.

Joe:  This is kind of a buzzword lately, the MVP or minimum viable product. We go with fail early and fail often, and little bets, and all these different things that are out there that are being used to guide innovation. I sometimes wonder what we really owe a customer, and more specifically the early adapters. Can we take it too far, all these different concepts?

Lance:  You probably see this mostly in the software realm, where it’s so easy to roll out a beta and to get customers to work with it and see if it works and hope that it works, et cetera. I think that that can be very shortsighted. If you continue to roll things out and they really are problematic, I think that that could hurt the overall equity of the brand. It could even ultimately hurt the launch and ultimate success of what might have been a good innovation given a little bit more time.

On the other hand, a lot of folks who take on the beta?testing role for companies often are elite users, often really do understand the technology, perhaps are searching for something better, and to a certain extent, willingly put themselves out there.

Recently, obviously, Google’s been doing this with Google Plus, right? I think there’s a lot of customers out there who willingly want to be on the front edge, want to be on the leading edge, want to have their opinions solicited in that manner. I think it can be valuable, but yes, I think it can undermine the company in a few different ways, as well.

As a broader point, I think the goal with the “fail early” idea is not necessarily that you would fail in the marketplace. That’s really where the customers going to be most affected. Rather it is, OK, we’ve introduced something and we didn’t have it really well?thought?out, and customers now are balking at it and it’s causing problems to our equity, and customers are unhappy and frustrated, and we’ve got all these extra call?center calls and adds our costs up.

That’s problematic. But if you think about “fail early” as in what are the opportunities to, loosely using the term, fail during the concept development and testing process, that’s where I think it’s most valuable. For example, you could say fail early could mean we’ve got a concept, and now we’re going to go out and do some concept testing, prototyping and things like that.

At that point in time, we might get feedback that people aren’t interested in our concept as we’ve defined it, even if we had an important and unsatisfied job. And at that point in time, we could say, “Well, we failed by having a concept that people didn’t value and, therefore, we stopped it.”

But, two things: one, it’s not failure in the sense it’s going to hurt your company, and two, it’s actually a very good thing. The sooner you can fail, the better in terms of not expending too many resources going down a path that ultimately is not going to succeed.

Joe:  Where do you go out and prototype with the customer and, as I term it, play in the customer’s playground to learn and be on the cutting edge is there ever a problem with it being the customer’s ideas and that dividing line there?

Lance:  Well, not typically. I am not an expert on the intellectual property side of how that is managed, whether in the customer environment or inviting customers to, perhaps, an ideation event or something like that. I’ve been on both sides of that. I’ve had some clients occasionally raise the issue, and others within the organization often will even say, “No, it’s not really an issue.” Some companies I think have some of their, whether it be opinion leaders or otherwise, sign off on documents, confidentiality and otherwise, so that those ideas become the property of the company. But generally I’ve not found that to be an issue, and I’ve not found that my clients have considered it a big issue.

I think perhaps the bigger, more philosophical issue is whether the internal culture of the company allows for the possibility that customers themselves can be creative in coming up with ideas that could be valuable in solving their unmet customer needs or their unmet needs.

That’s where you look at companies like Procter & Gamble, which for a long time had said, “Well, if it’s not invented here, then it’s maybe not worthy of pursuit.” And, of course, Procter & Gamble in the last handful of years now has really crafted a name for themselves, if you will, for their connect and develop approach.

Where now are saying, “Well, this is the need that we need to satisfy. This is our technological limitation.” They put a brief out, perhaps worldwide or a particular innovation or engineering network, saying, “Can you help us solve this problem?”

Whether that be from a customer, in some cases, supplier network, things like that, or whether that be simply out to other outsiders outside of your firm, I think that, increasingly, companies like Proctor & Gamble, and now of course that’s rolling out to others, are increasingly willing to say, “Look, a lot of the best ideas can come from internal, but some of the best ideas are going to reside outside of our organizational structure,” whether that be with a customer, a vendor or just some other network of scientists.

Ultimately, I think that’s very beneficial. I think that the great benefit of a job?centric approach again is, if you have a job as your anchor and you have very specific unmet needs, those sorts of outcomes that are used to measure success in getting a job done, you can be very specific in guiding the ideas that are solicited from external contributors.

Joe:  Getting back to your book, I wanted to really talk about a little bit about the four service innovation choices that you had. Can you name them and just tell me a little bit about each?

Lance:  Sure. Part of this, in naming them, I was trying to think through different types of growth or innovation approaches within the service realm, and then I was also trying to classify and separate out at the same time, different approaches of understanding the job the customers are trying to get done. The four approaches kind of cut across those two things, one of which, then, is new service innovation. One is core service innovation. One’s service delivery innovation and then, what I refer to as supplementary service innovation.

Well, new service innovation, not surprisingly, is about helping the company to find new service opportunities, new markets in the sense of service markets, value?added new services that can be offered to satisfy customer needs. The anchoring and emphasis in that chapter, then, that I write is about, how can you uncover new unmet customer jobs?

Instead of looking maybe at just one job that we’re currently satisfying, what other jobs are customers trying to get done? In any one of those individual other jobs, whether it is an emotional job or a functional job, might be the basis for a new service offering.

Core service innovation, then, is about saying, “Well, we already have a service or services out there, and those services are often targeted to a specific job that the customer is trying to get done.” I refer to that as a core job because its core to the company, and it’s also often core to the customer.

For example, the example I gave earlier about Weight Watchers, the core job that they’re trying to satisfy is to help the customer to lose weight. Now, I don’t actually know to what extent Weight Watchers has solutions also in the realm, let’s say, of maintaining weight loss, but that could also be another core job.

A company’s not limited to one core job. But, by taking one of those core jobs that they’re looking at, the idea behind core service innovation is to break that job down from a customer perspective, understand what their pain points are, where they struggle, what the inconveniences are, so that the company can innovate around their core service offering.

I’ll stop there for just a moment because, by looking at the many?jobs approach, the new service innovation, versus the one?main?job or core?job approach, really doesn’t mean that if you study the core job that you can’t lead to new services, or that if you study many jobs that that can’t lead to enhancements on your core service.

So it’s a little bit of an artificial distinction. It’s a useful distinction, I think, to think through, whether we want to figure out more jobs we can help the customer get done or help them to get one job done better that we already focus on. It’s a useful distinction, but in practice, one can lead to new service innovation or vice versa, or a core.

Then the other two, one is service delivery innovation. The idea there is; it’s not about the main reason why customers are hiring your service anymore. It’s not about many jobs, one job. At this point in time it’s about saying, look, we know that, for the job that the customers trying to get done, we are offering a service, or we are going to offer a service.

We know that the customer is going to need to obtain the service from us. They’re going to need to contact us. They’re going to need to access our service. They might need to apply for our service. They might need to order from us. They might need to actually receive the service, be in our physical facility, et cetera.

The service delivery innovation is about saying, how can you innovate around the delivery and provision of the service, for whatever that job is that they’re trying to get done.

Finally, the supplementary service innovation chapter is more anchored around, if you are a product?based company, then how can you think about service innovations in a way that supplement or complement your core product offering?

For example, you could look at what are called the consumption?chain jobs related to getting the value out of your product. So your product is hired for some job, but once it is hired, or before it’s hired, someone needs to purchase it. Someone needs to potentially install it, maintain it, clean it over time, store it, et cetera. And those also become opportunities for services to complement your product offering.

So those are the four types of service innovation that I talk about.

Joe:  Is there anything you would really like to add to this conversation or tell me about the book that maybe I didn’t ask?

Lance:  Well, I think that my final thoughts on this, and this comes out sometimes when I do executive education as well, is that you had mentioned earlier that it presents a disciplined, systematic approach. I think that there’s a lot of value in a disciplined, systematic approach to innovation, as we discussed earlier. I would hope that someone reading my book would be able to take away not only a systematic approach to understanding and prioritizing customer needs and then conceiving of these valuable service ideas. I would hope that they would take that away, yes. I would also hope that they would be able to take away, if you will, a way of thinking about customer needs, a way of thinking about markets and market opportunities, a way of thinking about innovation, from a customer?need perspective, that transcends the current offerings that are provided to the marketplace, whether that is product, services, software, et cetera.

I really hope that people that read the book will come away with a new way of thinking that can impact them as they go about innovation and just their daily jobs. Not only if they’re specifically in an innovation project, but even if they just happen to be conversing with colleagues.

If they happen to be at the client’s site for a meeting, if they happen to be at a trade show talking to clients, I hope that the idea that customers are hiring products and services to get jobs done will be a way of thinking what will impact them and that hopefully there’s a common language benefit to organizations reading this book and groups reading this book, that they can have a common language which also facilitates them proceeding through the innovation process.

Whether someone takes the systematic?method approach or not, I think that you can get a lot of benefits from an innovation perspective by just stepping back and thinking about your markets and your customers from a job?centric viewpoint.

Joe:  What’s on the horizon for you?

Lance:  I’m working a little bit with clients on some executive education. I’m always trying to expand my thinking, as it applies to both service innovation or more broadly, just innovation in general. And so that comes out in my executive?education offerings. Certainly, there’s always the hope that that will come out in subsequent articles, as well. I happen to really enjoy the process of thinking through how to improve the innovation process, and then I enjoy the opportunity to share those ideas, as well.

I’ve been very fortunate to be able to do that, both through executive education as well as through some of the things that I’ve been able to publish. Certainly, more of that is on the horizon for me.

And then, doing a little bit of work just working with clients on coaching them through the process, but that’s probably a little bit more of a minor focus for me, if you will, versus the other two avenues of sharing.

Joe:  How can someone get a hold of you?

Lance:  My email is [email protected]. I’m very good about keeping a very clean email box, and so if someone contacts me, I will be very responsive in very short order.

Joe:  I’d like to thank you very much. I appreciate the conversation, and I highly recommend the book. I thought it was an excellent book, and I enjoyed it very much. This podcast will be available on the Business901 blog site and also the Business901 iTunes store. So, thanks again.

Lance:  Thank you, Joe.

Lean Service Design Trilogy: Bring this Workshop on-site!