Howard M. Guttman is principal of Guttman Development Strategies, Inc. (GDS), a Mount Arlington, NJ-based management consulting firm founded in 1989 and specializing in executive coaching; building horizontal, 
high-performance teams; strategic and organizational alignment; and management development training. Mr. Guttman is the author of Great Business Teams: Cracking the Code for Standout Performance and Coach Yourself to Win: 7 Steps to Breakthrough Performance on the Job and In Your Life.
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Related Podcast: Best Practice for Self Coaching
Joe Dager: Welcome everyone; this is Joe Dager, the host of the Business 901 Podcast. With me today is Howard Guttman, the principal of Guttman Development Strategies, a New Jersey based management consulting firm. Howard has recently written a new book called Coach Yourself to Win. Howard, could you start out the conversation by introducing your consulting firm and what you do?
Howard Guttman: We’ve been in existence for 21 years, and there are about 25 consultants in the company. Essentially, there are four areas we play in. About 60% of what we do is; we do alignments with senior executive teams. We work with presidents and senior teams, and many companies, ranging from Johnson & Johnson to L’Oreal to Pfizer, with the goal being to have them work as a high performance team that can be benchmarked.
In other words, work as a horizontal team, rather than a leader?centered team. The second leg is we do a lot of coaching. About 20% of our firm… we have, probably, somewhere around 300 coaching clients. About half of them tend to be presidents and senior executives in companies who are technically strong, but need help in how they manage; how they lead; how they work in a matrix.
Another portion of our practice is around skills. We do programs on how do you influence in a matrix conflict resolution; leadership; how do you manage performance. Finally, the last leg is; we do process redesign work. We do strategy facilitation. We do project implementation.
In the market place, we are seen as a best?practice organization development firm.
Joe: With the team concept, you had a bestselling book in that area did you not?
Howard: Yes, The Great Business Teams book. That dealt with how you build and sustain high?performance teams at the top of the house, and how do you cascade them through organizations. We centered a lot on the voice of the client. We had clients talking from Wal?Mart, to Mars Candy Company, to L’Oreal; talking about how they really build and sustain these teams, and what it has meant from a business perspective.
That worked out well. In fact, “Time Magazine” did a one?page on us in March of ’09, which was just fabulous on the nature of the work.
Joe: That seems like the way that a lot of things are going today. It seems we went into a society where everybody went into a cubicle or in their house behind a computer. Now, it seems like, in industry, it’s becoming much more of a team effort; just about in every field, from software development, where they have pair programming, to sales and marketing, where they’re really losing that individual sales guy out there. We’re starting to see more sales/marketing teams formed, aren’t we?
Howard: Yes, a lot of it is about the fact that companies don’t work in silos. The world is flat. It keeps working more and more horizontally. So, when you see companies going into team?based structures, which you see continually, it’s all around. How do you speed up decision making? How do you speed up design to market time? How do you speed up issue identification and resolution? When you look at most of the companies that we work in, ultimately, I would say, all of them, one way or another, have initiatives to try and set up these best?practice, high?performing teams throughout the world.
Again, this is the way the world is going, and there’s no industry that’s really immune from that.
Joe: I have to agree with you. I have not read that particular book, but I’m inquisitive… did you go on how to perform as a team, as you say, across the world? So many of the teams that are being developed are not necessarily all in one place, did you go into how to develop that, and how to work in a virtual environment?
Howard: Yes, absolutely, because, you’re right. In the world, we’re in today; it’s an asymmetric world, and there are a lot of people that you may be colleagues of, who you’ve never met. But what we do, is; if you think about, let’s say an organization or a team that works functionally versus dysfunctional, they’re essentially five areas that they need to get closure on.
One is; they need to be in agreement regarding strategy. The second is; they have to be able to translate that into business priorities. The third is; they have to have clarity regarding individual accountabilities. The fourth is; they need to be clear regarding ways of working; the protocols. And when I say that, I’m not talking about values. I’m saying, when issues come up, how do they escalate? How do they force closure?
When decisions come up, when are they unilateral, when are they consultative, when are they consensus? When communications occur, who’s in the loop? Who’s not? And then, finally, they have to get clarity on their business relationships; their interdependencies.
When we work with these global teams, what we’re really trying to do is get clarity around those five things. Essentially, where our focus is, is recognizing that, it’s more about the ways of working, the interdependencies, and the accountability that usually makes or breaks these teams.
Many times, companies are under the erroneous notion that if they’re clear regarding their goals, or their strategies; it should just work out. It’s a fallacy.
Joe: There’s a lot more to it than just the goals, isn’t there?
Howard: Yes, absolutely. You and I could be on the same page regarding what the goals are. But the question of, who’s doing what to whom, how do we make decisions, etc., etc.? That’s, ultimately, what’s going to make or break these teams.
Joe: I think that’s one of the biggest growth industries in consulting is team facilitation, and building the team concept. Have people readily taken to that, or is that hard for them to do, after years of “This is my job and I do it this way?”
Howard: Well, organizations are classically hierarchical. Most of us come into a company, and we think in terms of “There’s the boss, here’s my role.” What they’re not thinking about is holding their peers accountable. So, when you think of the essence of a high?performing team; this could be a project team; it could be brand team, a category team, whatever it is. The real key that creates a high?performance team versus ones that are not is that, in a high?performance team, peers hold peers accountable.
That’s the game changer versus “It’s the boss’s job to corral everyone.”
Joe: I think that also teamwork gives you instant feedback. And with that instant feedback, you get built?in quality. Because you’re getting two, three, or four different opinions about something versus an individual taking something down the road a little bit, and finding out there’re mistakes in it. Because, then you don’t want to go back and fix it. But with instant feedback, you build in quality, don’t you?
Howard: Well, that’s exactly right. But in the end, the key for those teams, though, is; you have to pick people who are willing to be straight forward, and be willing to provide and hear feedback on the dime. That’s really the key. So, when you look at this issue of high?performance teams, what’s going to make or break its capacity to work, if you look at it from a human factor; it’s around individual’s willingness to be candid, and individual’s willingness to hear feedback.
That’s really the key that makes or breaks them.
Joe: When we talk about agile software teams, one of the key pillars of ‘agile’ is transparency.
Howard: Exactly.
Joe: How did that lead into your newest book, a self?coaching process, and coaching yourself to win?
Howard: The first book that we did was on conflict resolution, called “When Goliath’s Clash.” That, again, was around the fact that so much of our work dealt with the issue of high?performance teams, and peers holding peers accountable, and the nature of companies being comfortable with conflict. The next book “The Great Business Teams” is really the essence of our work. Where this one came out and started doing very well, a publisher came calling, McGraw?Hill and said “Do you have another business book in you?”
I said, “Well, I don’t know if I have another business book, per say, but I could do a cross?over book.” And so, this book “Coach Yourself to Win” was really about the fact that we do a lot of coaching in organizations. The fact of the matter is that for a lot of these organizations the only people who really get the coaching are people that are at the much higher levels.
We felt it was a huge gap here in terms of people who also needed support but somehow the company wasn’t going to invest in them. The second target group was just regular people. Not business people, not corporate people. Whether it is their desire to lose weight, stop smoking, stop drinking, or whatever it is.
The nature of this book was to take the lessons of the corporate sector and think about how people can apply it to themselves. That was really the essence of the book. We felt like it really occupies a space that hasn’t been dealt with a lot.
Joe: So, this book is really applicable to anyone.
Howard: That’s exactly right. That’s what we mean when we say like a cross?over book. We’re pretty excited about that.
Joe: When you talk about it you go through a seven?step process in self?coaching. Are these steps, these processes something that you’ve used yourself?
Howard: The seven?steps and I could quickly go through it. When you really break it down the process of coaching is the first step really is to determine whether you’re coachable. Meaning, am I willing to shift my behavior? That’s the first question anyone is going to have to ask themselves. In the book, we have people hold?up the mirror to themselves and try to get clear regarding their intentions. The second one is about setting your intention.
Once ultimately determine that you’re coachable, then you select your intention and commit to what are you going to do? What is your ultimate goal?
Chapter three, the third step is really around how you think about the people that are going to support you. Part of the essence of self?coaching is you don’t do it by yourself. You try to find a primary guide and a circle of support to have your back.
Joe: The first step is you have to recognize what your mental model is. What really holds you back, what pushes you forward, and really just self?reflecting yourself.
Howard: That’s right and really come to grips with it. Do you really want to shift the game right now? That’s really the key question. Do you want to really do that?
Joe: You might like yourself.
Howard: Well, you may like yourself but it still comes down to just coming from you verses getting pressure from someone else.
Joe: Step one, I’m going to use a Lean terminology is to build a current state map of who you are and what you are. Step two is a future state map of where you want to go?
Howard: Yes, that’s exactly right. When you talk about your intents, you’re really trying to define is what you’re happy in, what would it look like if it were working. When you look at setting your intention you’re thinking about what does the future state look like? If it happened the way you wanted it to, you’re painting a picture of that, and you’re committing to that. Setting your intention is almost like you’re trying to step into the future and really define what that is.
Joe: I may be jumping and putting more into three than what I understand, but what you said there was gathering the support team that you’re going to need to move forward with.
Howard: We’re calling it choosing your travel companions. Essentially, it’s you’re trying to create a circle of supportive people who really put skin in the game and want you to succeed. You are setting a powerful goal, and when you declare it, when you go public with it, that’s much more powerful than if you keep it to yourself. This third step is to set?up those traveling companions who have your back and are willing to be at stake for you to succeed and fulfill your intention. That’s really what that’s about.
Joe: Let’s go to step four then is feedback. What do you mean by that?
Howard: That’s a key one this is literally soliciting input. Going back to what I said earlier when I talked about a high performing team. The key is people with the ability to be candid and to hear feedback and have it be in a personalized fashion. In terms of this issue around gaining feedback someone with the ability to talk to folks and depersonalize the input. Hear it as a gift versus a threat is crucial in trying to take your game up. If you come from a defensive place, people are not going to want to engage with you. So this ability to somehow hear the input and appreciate the feedback and not descend, that’s really the key to the fourth step, the soliciting feedback.
You’re asking people, essentially, what they see in terms of your current behavior? What would need to change, again, based on what your intention is? What suggestions they have for you to take your game up? And you’re doing it in a very neutral light.
Joe: That’s a pretty key ingredient because it’s hard to accept feedback; we look at it as criticism, don’t we?
Howard: Well, right. I mean so part of the learning is really to get to that level where you can essentially, come from a much more powerful place because that’s really the only way it’s going to work.
Joe: Step five is you start evaluating that feedback, correct?
Howard: Yes, that’s right. Step five is now; you’re thinking about the message the people are giving you. Maybe you’re going, you’re getting together with maybe your guide, somebody who’s close to you. One of those people whose supporting you and you’re using them pretty much as sounding board saying, “Look, here are the messages I’m hearing, these are the messages I’m getting, is this what it sounds like to you and here’s what I think I need to do.” So that’s a crucial point.
This is really how do you analyze the data that you’re getting, and that’s why using somebody as an objective sounding board, I think is crucial in this point. That really precedes the next step which is then coming up with the game plan. What are you going to do? What actions are you going to take and fundamentally, do you really want to go back potentially, to the people who were in your feedback loop.
People who took the time to really engage with you and give them the heads up, “Here are the messages I heard, here’s what I’m planning to do.” So you’re really trying to keep marshaling or gaining a group of folks who are willing to support you. It’s much more powerful that way.
Joe: As you gather steam here, do you collect more people?
Howard: The goal is not necessarily getting more and more people. You want to have a small group, Joe. Four to six folks or four to five folks who really, I’m really looking at as my circle of support and picking one of those people to really be your unofficial or informal “guide.” The main person is your sounding board and finally, your last point; you’re really playing out that game plan and periodically, you check in with that guide and those people, that small group of support, that kitchen cabinet to support you.
When you really look at what this is all about, it really is around how do you create a process to really take your game to another level? How do you set up a team which is much more powerful than doing it by yourself? Increase the likelihood that you’ll be able to do it. That’s really what this whole thing is about.
Joe: Are you’re really setting metrics there or achievements, what are the levels in Step seven?
Howard: You’re really trying to, so in other words, whether it is losing weight and what the pounds look like or stopping smoking by what date or I want to achieve a certain career, the next step on the ladder by X date. The goal is to be as specific as possible. When you think about Six Sigma or a lot of the folks you deal with a lot, the grand goal here is the more you can be explicit around the goal, what does it look like? How would you measure the success? The greater likelihood that you will achieve it. So the goal here is not to be amorphous, that’s right.
Joe: I think this is really interesting because this is a closely resembles DMAIC or PDCA (Plan?Do?Check?Act) type of thinking. It’s very similar. I think few consultants take their own processes and make it a self?coaching process for themselves. I find it interesting because it’s the method that you tell people to do, in a business sense but do you really do it for yourself. This is kind of an interesting approach for them to reflect on. Do they really practice what they preach?
Howard: That’s exactly right. I mean you’re the business case; that’s exactly right. So this is like whether or not you can practice or preach that’s true.
Joe: You mentioned that going public is important. You have to go out and tell people what you’re doing. Why is that important?
Howard: Well, you know, it’s interesting that you read a lot of books, self-help books or motivational books. People read them, and they keep them to themselves and they try to do something. If it doesn’t work, no one is necessarily the wiser because no one knows. When you go public, it’s far more powerful because you’re putting yourself out there more on the line. When you have people that you’re really saying to them look, I see you as a stakeholder, so I’m investing in you giving you a license to hold me accountable.
I mean; that’s a much different ballgame. It will absolutely further increase the probability of success because you really are part of an initiative. It’s the doing it in a clandestine fashion where if you want to slip out the back door, no one’s going to see it. This is different.
Joe: When you post it on the wall, people walk by, they look at you, and it certainly should give you more motivation. It’s like in the weight room in high school football when you’re sitting there posting your chart on the wall, and all your team members are there looking at it in July because they expect you to perform in October?
Howard: That’s exactly right. You know, when I think about, again, this process, it’s not we pulled a rabbit out of a hat, what we’re really doing is in a sense we’re taking a lot of the lessons that makes coaching successful in a corporate arena, and we’re having that be then applicable to an individual.
One of the things that you do when you do coaching in the corporate arena is that you do usually work with a person to determine who the stakeholders in their world are and then you solicit input from the stakeholders. In a sense, this is very similar to that. The only difference is you’re doing it yourself.
Joe: You may have answered it. What is the difference between doing it within a corporate situation or a personal situation?
Howard: Well, you know, the essential difference is that when you’re in a corporate arena, it’s usually you’re dealing with like something that’s uni-dimensional; it’s all about the job, right? In this case, it could be a personal issue. So, that’s a different ballgame.
The other issue is that, in the corporate arena, the company is paying somebody to work with you, you know; coaches make a lot of money. Here, this is voluntary.
Finally, the last point, which is a crucial point, is that you’re soliciting the input yourself versus somebody else. So, this is much more up close and personal.
Joe: Why do you think we solicit all this type of information, but we fail to put it in practice so often, just looking at all the self-help instruments out there through the years, there are best sellers all the time. Why does the individual seek that, but then they don’t follow through. Is there a difference if I buy this book?
Howard: Well, I think a lot of people never really think about, or let’s put it this way. For a lot of people, it’s getting into action which really challenges a lot of folks. It’s the inability to get into action. They really don’t set a real clear intention; you can think about people who are great job seekers. They spend all their time honing their resume, right? But they never quite get into the prospect of networking to get the job. They just keep doing their resume.
So then, you think about well, what is it they’re doing. Well, their intentions are about making a resume; it’s not necessarily about doing the job search.
When you really set an intention like what does the future state look like, it really implies that you’re going to be getting into action. Going back to the question you initially asked, for a lot of people they’re really not up to the action. They’re up to talking about being in action, but they really don’t get into the action because it’s safer, right? You don’t fail.
You don’t get anywhere, but you can still rationalize it.
Joe: Do you think that is the biggest challenge for people?
Howard: For a lot of people that challenge is great, in terms of going from a thought in their head of what they would like to see and actually getting into a place of intentionality about it with that clear commitment. That to me is like a crossing of the river for a lot of people, and they usually stay on the more comfortable side, because they don’t have to put themselves on the line. If they’re putting yourself on the line, the intentionality, that is really the thing that separates the folks who are really clear about what they want vs. those that are not.
Joe: So, that is kind of like??I hate to use this terminology a little bit, because I think we’re a little different level than this, but I kind of think of the Weight Watchers and what I hear about Weight Watchers, that they go have that weekly weigh?in, and that intention that they have. They define what they are going to do, and then they go through it, and then they go in there, and they have got to face everyone to see that they are improving a little bit. That puts a lot of??I don’t want to say pressure onto you, but accountability, right?
Howard: But what is funny about it, you mention like the Weight Watchers; there are a lot of people who are good at losing weight; their intention is to lose weight. Their intention isn’t necessarily to keep the weight off. There are a lot of people like Oprah Winfrey; she keeps going up and down. There is an old line which says “The results that you get are proof of what your intention is.” For a lot of people, what is the proof of their intention is the ability or the desire to lose weight a lot, but not necessarily keep it off, right?
Joe: You really have to take the intention of losing weight and have that as your secondary goal, and then the primary goal is to lead a healthier lifestyle.
Howard: Yes. That’s exactly right.
Joe: What have you really found in your coaching experience to be the biggest challenge?
Howard: I would say that probably the biggest challenge is for people to get beyond their comfortable way of operating. I mean if you look at what are the factors that make or break coaching. One of the factors is that you have to have accurate data, and have a picture of what winning looks like. Another, you have to have somebody who is really invested in your success. A third factor is how to go between the coach and the coachee. Then finally the last one, which is the crucial one, is someone willing to go beyond their comfort zone. That’s the tough one! So, when you say, “What is the most challenging aspect of coaching?” It is someone who is willing to go beyond a comfortable way of working.
Joe: Is that easier to go ahead and do that incrementally, then let’s say ‘jump’? I mean is it easier, and I am going to??this is probably a lousy analogy, but is it easier to go from a pack?a?day of cigarettes to half?a?pack to zero, or is it really easier to cold turkey? I don’t want to relate it exactly to smoking, but…
Howard: No. No, but I understand what you mean. I don’t know what the answer to that is. I mean, for some people who like closure quickly, they just like to just jump in the water. Other people psychologically feel more comfortable weaning off. There is an instrument. Do you know the Myers-Briggs Instrument?
Joe: Yes.
Howard: It is a style. It talks about people’s styles. One of the things it talks about are some people who like closure very rapidly, everything is very buttoned?up, other people more extemporaneous. I think it really depends on the individual. In my mind, for me let’s say, for me it is important that I just do it. In the book, I talk about the fact that I worked out all my life. A few years ago, I thought about??because I am on the road a lot, and I thought about back when I was in college. I used to do 50 pushups every morning it was like my normal regimen. I thought a few years ago, “Why don’t I start by going back to doing that?” and that’s what I do.
I am one of these people who likes to get closure very rapidly. I like to take the quickest route between the two points.
Joe: It really goes back to; you really have to take time in that step one, and, actually, learn about yourself. You really do need to know that, because that’s really going to determine whether you can succeed later on in the other steps, isn’t it?
Howard: Yes, you’ve got to be straight with yourself. You really have got to be willing to be straight with yourself, and see if you’re willing to sign up for it. Absolutely, which is why the first thing we say to people is “Can you coach yourself to win? Are you really self?coachable?” That’s a huge issue. When you look at the people who stop smoking, or stop drinking, or lose the weight and keep it off, or get the job, blah, blah, blah; a lot of it is about someone’s intentionality, right? That’s really what it comes down to.
Think about the people in your life that you know who are the most powerful. They’re the people who tend to be the most intentional.
Joe: Understanding yourself; it’s the old Zen thing, a little bit, isn’t it?
Howard: Oh, yes. Yes. It’s like the old adage they used to say about getting a job; they say the people who get the jobs are not, necessarily, the people who are the best qualified for the jobs; they’re the people who appear to be the best qualified; the people who wanted it more. That issue of who wants it more. You think about professional sports. The distinction between the teams that win versus the teams that lose is not real great, today. There’s a lot of parody in so many of the sports. There’s the question of; who wants it more?
So, the whole issue here with self?coaching is; do you want it? How bad do you want it? When you’re looking at the world, we live in today, in terms of, the economy and everything else; this is a very challenging period of time for people…very challenging period of time.
It really forces people, in some cases, to really press themselves. Because, as you know, there is a lot of industries right now that have gone belly?up. Literally, you have people who have to re?invent themselves.
I know people out there, who are in, let’s say financial services, and they’re in their late fifties. They’re not going to get a job in financial services anymore, in their late fifties. They have to literally, re?invent themselves. That’s tough stuff.
Joe: You’re absolutely right. The world is changing so dramatically in the recent years that people really do have to adjust to it. I always tell people in sales and marketing; it’s like we have excess capacity everywhere in the world, right now.
Howard: Right. That’s exactly right, Joe.
Joe: You really have to re?invent yourself to be part of that choice, because everybody can get what they want, when they want it, for they price they want. It’s not that difficult, anymore, that faster, better, cheaper, thing? It’s pretty much gone.
Howard: Yes.
Joe: And that’s what we’ve been striving for the last 30?40 years, in business.
Howard: A book like this enables someone to really think about, how do they stay committed, what hold them back, how do they gain the support, etc.? I feel like there’s a real space for this book, today, just given the nature of the challenges that so many people are struggling with.
Joe: If people understand this, and they understand themselves, and they build this, does that make what we started this conversation with today, better? Does it make team building easier, if people understand this process?
Howard: Well, the answer is yes. Because, ultimately, what it means is, that you’re going to have people who are going to be far more powerful, in terms of, their capacity to adapt or shift their game. If you’re dealing with a team, and you have people on that team who have the capacity to, in a very de?personalized way, be introspective, and think about how they could add more value, it, absolutely, is going to take the game to another level.
If you have people who are going to be more candid, more non?defensive, or if you have people who are coming from a threatened place, who hear feedback as a threat; that’s not going to serve the dynamics of that team to be as good as it can be, right?
So there’s absolutely a correlation between someone’s capacity to be coachable and the ability to contribute to a functional versus a dysfunctional business unit.
Joe: What would you hope someone took away from this book?
Howard: My best hope is that somebody would be able to read this book and as a result of reading the book, they would then be able to make some difference in their life or their business life that they could sustain. My hope is that a book like this will really enable someone to have a breakthrough for them self. That’s to me, so if it provokes someone to really take a hard look at them self, and they’re able to, as a result of that, make something better for them self, I feel like that will work for me!
Joe: When was the book released? It wasn’t released too long ago, was it?
Howard: No, about three weeks ago. It’s hot off the press. It would be a great Christmas gift. There’s a dedicated website called CoachYourselfToWin.com where you can find supporting materials to help you go through the process. There’s an interactive website that would be worth checking out, as well. If someone needs more support, they can find the support on the website.
This book in my mind will stand the test of time because it will be just as relevant 10 years from now as it is now.
Joe: When you first edited it, what was some of the changes you made in it? I mean was there something that you had to do? Did this just naturally flow because you’ve been doing it for so long?
Howard: It did flow pretty easily. What we kept doing was the only thing that I wanted to keep editing was to make sure that the book was user friendly, like really user friendly and that it would be an easy read. So I think one of the things you’ll find when you read this book and the feedback that we get is that it’s an easy read. It’s an enjoyable book. That’s really the thing that we cared the most about that people would be able to pick it up and enjoy it! Our business books, they’re not academic. They’re written for anybody to enjoy.
Joe: I’d like to thank you very much! This podcast will be available on the Business901 blog site and on the Business901 iTunes store. So, Howard, again thank you very much.
Howard: Yes, I enjoyed the conversation, Joe! And if anyone enjoys the book, picks it up, if they have any questions they can always email me at our website and I’ll be glad to respond to them. If you like the book, say something nice and put it on Amazon.
Thank you very much. Take care.
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